Is Mosman A Case Of Mistaken Identity?

Is Mosman A Case Of Mistaken Identity?


Oh dear – the lunatics are trying to run the asylum! Mosman has always had its individual niche suburbs – Balmoral (not Balmoral Beach), Clifton Gardens, Mosman Bay and Beauty Point. Although at the end of the day it is Mosman 2088 so I see the attempt to subdivide Mosman into five new identities is nothing more than bureaucracy gone mad.

Further confirmation is the media outlets are having a field day at the expense of Mosman – Five uneasy pieces as Mosman faces split – up which makes it sound like an ugly divorce. Plan to lock suburb out of its harbour fronts so on the one hand you have a new suburb Balmoral Beach although your home may front onto Chinamans Beach? Has this actually been thought through?

When I go to Domain to look at the houses listed in Mosman that is exactly where you find every house. As For Balmoral Beach – 0, Clifton Gardens – 0, Beauty Point – 0 and Mosman Bay – 0. So it’s not that hard to see what the consumer thinks and simply shows how confusing and ill-informed such a proposal is. As they say “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it” and I believe there are plenty of other issues at which Mosman Council would be better directing its resources instead of again carelessly wasting tax – payer monies.




Last week I read with interest an article that appeared in the (Australian Financial Review) – Why this $80bn fund manager won’t touch Australian banks. I liked this question to First Eagle portfolio manager Matthew McLennan by Christopher Joye. “You are clearly very knowledgeable on the Australian economy – what are your views on the resurgent Aussie housing market? It is interesting to me when you hear a politician saying this is not a housing bubble – that is just a supply – constrained market. At the end of the day, I think the Australian housing market is instinctively on the full side of fair value in a situation where the natural constituency, the marginal buyer, is already quite levered.”

I thought interesting analysis, then I thought let’s see what this so called bubble looks like and just exactly what is causing this ‘bubble’. It can be explained quite easily – “supply”. The average Mosman agency today has approximately five per cent of the properties on their rental lists available. Ten years ago that figure was ten to fifteen per cent and twenty years ago it was twenty – five per cent. Very few practicing agents today would ever remember how rental properties were once offered with rent – free inducements to prospective tenants.

29-10-2013 12-38-47 PM

There are just 90 houses in Mosman available for purchase today, this time last year 114, and this time two years ago 155. For apartments we have 55, this time last year 92, and this time two years ago 110. So you can see a pattern forming where the last time Mosman reached 100 houses was back on May 23 of this year – and in our peak selling season Spring/Summer we are struggling to reach triple figures. So again it is supply that is controlling the market and whilst it remains at record lows it is fair to say that Mosman does not have a bubble or alternatively if it does have a bubble there is next to no air in it. Cremorne houses available are 9, and twelve months ago there were 15 and two years ago 16. Cremorne apartments you have a choice of 15, and twelve months ago 15, and two years ago 36. Neutral Bay houses offer 11, and twelve months ago 20 and two years ago 18. Neutral Bay apartments offer 26, twelve months ago there were 56 available and two years ago you had 98 apartments for sale – so there is a very clear pattern evolving.

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I prefer to offer a handkerchief analysis of the market as against media outlets who offer the blanket analysis although it would be correct to suggest that the two bear absolutely no resemblance.

MOSMAN – 2088

• Number of houses on the market this time 2012 – 114
• Number of houses on the market last week – 88
.Number of houses on the market this week – 90
• Number of apartments on the market this time 2012 – 92
• Number of apartments on the market last week – 57
.Number of apartments on the market this week – 55


• Number of houses on the market this time 2012 – 15
• Number of houses on the market last week – 11
.Number of houses on the market this week – 9
• Number of apartments on the market this time 2012 – 15
• Number of apartments on the market last week – 14
.Number of apartments on the market this week – 15


Number of houses on the market this time 2012 – 20
• Number of houses on the market last week – 10
.Number of houses on the market this week – 11
• Number of apartments on the market this time 2012 – 56
• Number of apartments on the market last week – 32
. Number of apartments on the market this week – 26

Source: Australian Property Monitors

For this week’s sales in Cremorne real estate, Cremorne Point real estate, Mosman real estate, Beauty Point real estate, Clifton Gardens real estate, Balmoral real estate, Neutral Bay real estate, Cammeray real estate
Click Here

For this week’s opens for inspection
Click Here

So then you have the constant innuendo that our banks are fast – tracking a sub – prime experience yet the ANZ posted this week a $6.498 billion profit up eleven per cent from the previous year. NAB announced yesterday a profit of $5.940 billion profit up nine per cent on the previous year. I did note immediately following the profit announcements the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) advised Australia’s largest banks to limit their dividend payouts to investors to allow the banks to comply with the new rules requiring them to maintain higher capital thresholds.

Whatever currency takes your fancy or whatever name you want to call it – the Mosman dollar still looks very, very impressive.

Cheers ^__^

14 Responses to “Is Mosman A Case Of Mistaken Identity?”

  • Brian Wilder says:


    My home is at Georges Heights in the suburb of Mosman and has been for forty years. Before that it was at Mosman Bay in the suburb of Mosman. I owned an investment property at Balmoral Beach in the suburb of Mosman. These names have been around since the last century.

    My ambition was to live in Clifton Gardens in the suburb of Mosman. Best views and widest streets.

    Whenever I’m asked where I live, if I reply ‘Mosman’ the next question is always ‘where in Mosman’? and it has always been thus and always will be. When I was looking for property to buy in the suburb of Mosman, I knew exactly which districts I was prepared to buy into and which I wasn’t.

    What exactly is ‘lunatic’ about that ? Seems obvious and very commonplace to me.

    As for your comment “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it”, had this philosophy been adopted in the stone age we’d still be in the stone age. And Robert, I don’t believe a successful businessman like you would adopt this attitude in your own business. It certainly would not have worked for Steve Jobs at Apple would it !

    Brian Wilder
    Georges Heights, Mosman

  • Brian,

    Thanks for your thoughts – I just don’t see why it is so important to create five additional suburbs under the one postcode 2088. From I have been reading on Social Media – very few can see the logic of this or what is to be gained.

    Looks more to me like ‘policy – on – the – run’.

  • Brian Wilder says:


    We must agree to disagree on the District names then (not ‘suburbs’) but perhaps you can explain these tags ? Why do you use them if they are meaningless ?

    Tags: Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, Balmoral, Balmoral real estate, Beauty Point, Beauty Point real estate, Cammeray, Cammeray real estate, Chinamans Beach, Christopher Joye, Clifton Gardens, Clifton Gardens real estate, Cremorne, Cremorne Point, Cremorne Point real estate, Cremorne real estate, Matthew McLennan, Mosman, Mosman real estate, Neutral Bay, Neutral Bay real estate, Robert Simeon, Tim Mooney, Tim Mooney Photography, Virtual Realty News

    No, it’s not important, but it gives an old Mosmanite like me a warm fuzzy feeling ! I love the old names. But as you of all people know, Mosman is not Mosman when it comes to Real Estate – it’s all about position, position, position isn’t it ?

    But I’m not letting you off that lightly ! Why did you ignore my comments on your, with respect, and out of character silly statement that : “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it” ?

    Surely Robert, you don’t believe that or adopt it as part of your business plan or what used to be called a Mission Statement ?

    Shame on you mate !!

    Best wishes,

    Brian Wilder

  • Pat says:

    This is a storm-in-a-teacup paean for the cohort for whom their locality within Mosman is a status/lifestyle symbol, which they wish to shout from the ridgetop.

    Me? I cringe when I’m asked where I live and reply ‘Mosman’. I further dread being asked where in Mosman and disclosing ‘Balmoral’. ‘Tis better to be discreet than be lumped with the disreputable and vapid locals.

  • Robert Simeon says:


    I tag these localities (you note I did not use suburb) as that is what they are a location for SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) so that we appear higher up on the page rankings when for example somebody searches that name. For the purpose of our business they are important KeyWords which enables our business to enjoy the highest ranking with Google for example and it is organic growth.

    My main concern with the decision by some Mosman Councillors is where did this mandate come from? By whose authority? I do note that the Mayor is backtracking at a faster rate than a car which left its handbrake off on Awaba Street.

    So let’s look at the localities within the suburb of Mosman 2088 – if you live in Sirius Cove you are now expected to save Mosman Bay, if you live in Parriwi Road well you can now change that to Beauty Point. I see hundreds of examples as to why residents would vote NO and just a few as why you would vote YES.

    Mosman is fortunate that it is possesses a wealth of stunning locations which is supported by an amazing history. As I see it this is a move to remove Chinamans Beach, Sirius Cove, Whiting Beach, Little Sirius Cove, Athol Bay, Edwards Beach, Taylors Bay, Chowder Head, Middle Head, Shell Cove, Pearl Bay and Quakers Hat Bay all locations that play an intrinsic part of Mosman’s rich historical tapestry.

    I am yet to hear a valid reason as to why this is such a necessary evil?

    Kind regards


    • Brian says:

      The real question is Robert, why were these district names ever dropped in the first place, given how long they have been around. They are of historical significance (19th Century ?) and so much nicer than plain old Mosman. They add real character to the suburb.

      Some of these names are to be found on the map on Tunks Ward, Municipality of St Leonards, published in 1888, which included Mosman. The Borough of Mosman was created in 1893.

      These district names, within the suburb of Mosman, i.e. Balmoral Beach, Clifton Gardens, Mosman Bay, Georges Heights etc. were never actually suburbs surely. If they were, I’ve never understood that to be the case.

      We dropped the district geographical names as our formal address, but not the suburb name itself. I seem to remember that this was done at the direction of the Geographical Names Board, probably to simplify things for the bureaucracy.

      To use you own words, “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it”, which in this instance is a fair comment. Why was it ever agreed to drop these names ?

      There has always ever been one suburb, and that is Mosman. Even the old Post Office on the Esplanade was a sub branch of Mosman PO, not Balmoral Beach PO.

      I remember we were told we couldn’t just use Balmoral Beach 2088 or Clifton Gardens 2088 as an address, but had to use Mosman 2088, but many, including me, continued to use their district location too.

      We’ve always been Cobbittee St, Georges Heights, Mosman 2088 and always will be as far as we are concerned !

  • Robert Simeon says:


    See we can agree 🙂

    My major concern is directed to those Councillors so saw it upon themselves to change the suburb with a mandate. I have subsequently learned that the vote was 5 – 2 for the name changes. Who on earth gives these people the right to make such ludicrous decisions without the benefit of public debate.

    I see a lot of fired up residents commenting on social media in the same way as residents are on this blog. Democracy and freedom of speech are alive and well.

    All we have to do is convince those at Mosman Council who appear to be more about their very own self preservation than democratic equality.

  • Michael Randall says:

    I completely agree. Why change something that is not broken! This looks and smells like a benefit to certain councillors that live in “Balmoral”. It serves no community benefit, and will create division within the community. Hell, it is already causing division.

    It will create confusion across the suburbs.. For example, shops on one side of Military road will be in Mosman, whilst the other side will be in Balmoral Beach, despite being nowhere near a beach. These boundary changes don’t reflect common usage eg shops on Military Rd are not in Balmoral Beach, Bradley Head Rd, Prince Albert St and Taronga Zoo are not in Mosman Bay, Sirius Cove is not in Mosman Bay, Chainmen’s Beach is not in Beauty Point. Mosman has always been a harbour side suburb.

    Not only this, it will cause unnecessary financial burden on residents, Council and small business. Don’t get me started on the costs to Search Engine Marketing.

    I certainly don’t support this crazy two man band get-up, that seems only to serve their purposes and not residents in general. The proposal does not have community support!

    • Brian says:


      What you say is total nonsense. The name of the suburb is, and always has been and always will be, MOSMAN.

      The other names are, and always have been and always will be, urban localities in the suburb of Mosman.

      And this is the way it was for many many years, probably more than a century in fact, until for some reason Mosman Council took the advice of the Geographical Names Board a few years ago, and did away with these urban locality names.

      This had NO effect on the name of our suburb, which is MOSMAN. No need for anyone to change their letterhead or nay part of their address.

      I live in Georges Heights, Mosman, and have done so for almost 40 years.

      The real problem has been caused by the Council not re-adopting all the previous locality names.


  • Brian says:


    I’m not so sure about that !

    I’m very much in favour of bringing back into everyday use the old historical names, but why only some of them ? Who decided which names to include and which to leave out ? Why wasn’t this ever discussed ? Who gave the historical advice ? Was any expert opinion ever sort ?

    The obvious choice would have been Mosman resident and historian Gavin Souter, the author of Mosman : A History (MUP).

    Why was Georges Heights left off the list ? It is one of the oldest districts, and one of the most important because of its guns, and was named soon after the First Fleet moved up from Botany Bay.

    Beauty Point on the other hand is shown as “Park Gate Estate” on the map of 1888 ! Which begs the question as to whether Beauty Point should be part of Mosman at all ?!!


  • Carl says:

    Whenever I get asked “where do you live?” I say “Mosman”… and that’s where it ends.

    The only people that would ask me “where in Mosman?” are people like Brian, who live in Mosman!

  • Robert Simeon says:


    All your points are of great importance and do deserve a response from the Councillors. The only problem is how we got to this stage without public debate and just what were the exact reasons as to why, five elected Councillors rubber stamped this proposal without public debate.

    Personally, this reminds me of the ongoing Eddie Obeid saga – where it’s all about smoke and mirrors. There are a number of questions that demand answering and unless they are answered there will be legitimate questions challenging the integrity of those elected to Mosman Council.

    I understand a number of residents have already made submissions to ICAC pertaining to the actions of some Mosman Council Councillors.

    Don’t put a stick in a beehive – is what springs to mind with this issue.

    • Brian says:


      We are, almost, in total agreement !

      If all the old names had been restored, we wouldn’t have most of this problem. After proper debate and consultation of course.

      But they should never have been scrapped in the first place though, just to suit the Geographical Names Board. In reality, they are still in wide general use..

      Remember the ‘blinking light’ at French’s forest ?!


  • Brian says:


    When we’re expecting visitors and I’m asked where I live, if I reply ‘Mosman’ the next question is always ‘where in Mosman’? and it has always been thus and always will be.

    Mosman covers a very large area. Georges Heights, where we live, is a long way from Beauty Point for example.

    Why is that unusual ?

    When I tell people I was born in London, the next question is always ‘where in London’!


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